Thanks for sharing your journey. Since one of my children was diagnosed with ADHD I’ve come to realize I almost certainly have it myself, and so does my dear mother who has beaten herself up for chronic lateness for over 70 years. When I explained time blindness to her I could hear the relief in her voice that maybe her behavior isn’t a moral failing, after all. I feel the same relief.
Funny how you finally decided to get tested around collge age; that's around the time when I also decided to get tested! I think it's something about the illusion of flexibility in time management & the lack of hand-holding that make it way harder to be untreated ADHD in college vs. untreated ADHD in high school
Started 40 mg Vyvanse my sophomore year and it, without question, completely changed my life.
I take it too but doesn't set me up like it has for you and others. It helps but not to the same degree. It varies widely. I'd happy with uninterrupted focus for 15 mins!
Thank you for writing this, Gena! Your self-account around sustained intentionality really hit a nerve, somehow piercing the protective layer I had called "there's no way I have ADHD, it's just a character issue" that once again shows that our mental prisons are always locked from the inside.
I am the type of person in possession of many unscheduled compounds, including a passable adderall analog. I woke up today and tried an approximated intro dose. And wow. I believe I'll back off future doses a bit but holy shit. Sustained intentionality?! It wasn't just character flaws and/or trauma? Big if true. More experiments required but this very comment is the type of thing I would have written half of and then closed the tab.
Thanks so much for sharing. I’m fairly certain I’m an undiagnosed ADHD adult, and I struggle with it daily. I’ve considered trying Adderall, but I’m terrified of possible long-term side effects, like heart disease. Is there strong evidence of this? I also wonder: if I already struggle with focus, would taking Adderall just be a crutch that could end up worsening an underlying physiological issue as I age?
The latest research shows either no long-term risk of stimulant meds on heart disease (e.g., https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2798903 ) or some small alleged risk that’s likely explained by confounds (like having ADHD vs not!). Of course I’d encourage you to do your own research and cost/benefit calculus, since everyone’s risk profile is different, but I for one am way less likely to drop dead of a stroke or heart attack if I keep taking Adderall vs not. 😅
Here I was, yesterday, in this exact spot in the house, thinking I'd be trying to do stuff and not doing it for the rest of the day, kind of as always, and lo, this article. I admit I only skimmed it at first, with smug raised eyebrows. When I got to the not small print, and skimmed that, my internal monologue went from "nananana" to "oh shit not this again, NO, I AM NOT ANOTHER ADHD PERSON" very quickly. I consulted some diagnostic criteria and then went straight to Claude to complain ("how is this a diagnosis, these are all normal people things, i refuse to call myself adhd when everyone online uses diagnoses as badges"). Claude did not agree with my yammering, but took me through the criteria step by step, and about an hour later, I sent an email to a psychiatrist, asking for a diagnosis of both me and my son. I was distraught for the rest of the day, confused about reality, missed (forgot) an appointment, laughed and cried about the irony, etc.
Later, I read your article again, this time it soothed me considerably. Still, the prospect of *not* constantly beating myself up for just not being able to do what I *want* to do just does not compute.
Thank you for framing this the way you did, as accepting support, not a new identity. For me, it may have changed everything.
Oh wow, thank you so much for this honest and raw account of how the post affected you, Esther. The possibility that it might impact someone in exactly this way was the whole reason I wrote it, so this means the world to me. <3 Rooting for you and your son to get the insight and support you need, and let me know if I can ever help in any way!
The part that resonates with me most is the trouble in transitioning to the workplace. I remember being on my first co-op software job, sitting down after lunch and looking at my colleagues as they all just... started programming. I just could not understand how they could do that. So I felt a lot of guilt about not being able to just... work.
Took me a few years to find out about ADHD, and then later ASD. The combination of the two is really annoying. I both crave routine and structure, and absolutely abhor it. It makes transitions really hard. I'm either locked in on something and can't think about anything else (even if I physically remove myself from whatever it is I was doing), or my mind is searching for something, anything other than whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing. Vyvanse makes the latter more manageable.
Either way, my output is really lumpy. If my brain is currently obsessed with something, I can move mountains. But if it's on to something else? Forget about it. Makes it hard to take on long term projects because I'll be really into it for a week or two, and then I'll want nothing to do with it. I at least recognize that a lot of my interests are cyclical, so I do sometimes come back to it.
It's hard not to feel fundamentally broken. I have the intellectual capacity to do hard things, but I don't feel like I can work with myself.
I am most certainly an undiagnosed adult, and based on my own observations and some feedback from teachers, so is my 7 year old son.
I have had a very unconventional upbringing and always thought my scattered mind was a result of that but as I see with my son (and my Mom and Grandfather), it seems deeper and more fundamental than just ideas I’ve accumulated about the world, rather it’s a very definite personality trait or way of operating.
I am still (at least for now) not entirely sold on the ‘disability’ framing of ADHD. In my life experience it has been instrumental in my ability to identify patterns and make connections that most others just can’t make.
My brain operates in a much more abstract (but not one dimensional like with mathematics) way, that has been crucial in my ability to innovate as an entrepreneur. I don’t mean the type of lineal innovating like Gates did with Microsoft, I mean the type of broad spectrum, multifaceted innovating that Jobs did of creating an entirely new ecosystem of industries. (I’m not comparing myself to them, rather just using the two of them to differentiate the types of creativity I am referring to).
I have been fortunate enough to have found entrepreneurship and people who have seen past my scatter brain deficits and recognized my strengths, not in spite of those deficits but as a corollary to them. Eg. I am scattered on the menial administrative tasks because I am completely absorbed in how the new brands colors are communicating our message, or because I’m completely obsessed with our latest product design etc. I can guarantee you that if I took a pill that helped me do those admin tasks, my brand to product sensibilities and all my other superpowers would suffer. And luckily for me I have found a career and people that not only accept those traits but excel because of them.
My point is that I question the underlying context of excellence. Are we all these uniformly, well rounded individuals who can tick the expected boxes given to us or are we a mix mash of different abilities designed to be strong in one area and then naturally weaker in another, naturally opening the door to others who compliment those extremes with their own unique combination?
The current education system is built around a duty mentality and a ‘well rounded’ standard and while that is good and works for some people, it’s truly decimating for others and while I’m not always against it, I don’t think medication is the solution, I think it’s a deeper issue.
“My executive function is weak and benefits hugely from interventions like Adderall and GTD” over “I have ADHD”
I agree with the former framing. Too many people don’t quite qualify for the latter but do for the former, and both deserve the opportunity to do something about it.
I don’t think we know enough to know what the “reward/emotive system” even is or how distinct it is from the executive control system, but insofar as we do, something like depression would be much more of a clear-case cut of “reward/emotive” deficits. A person with vs without ADHD experiences the same range of emotions and reward-based motivations, but more erratically given how easily our attention wanders off and how hard it is to keep a given reward in view.
Thanks for sharing your journey. Since one of my children was diagnosed with ADHD I’ve come to realize I almost certainly have it myself, and so does my dear mother who has beaten herself up for chronic lateness for over 70 years. When I explained time blindness to her I could hear the relief in her voice that maybe her behavior isn’t a moral failing, after all. I feel the same relief.
Funny how you finally decided to get tested around collge age; that's around the time when I also decided to get tested! I think it's something about the illusion of flexibility in time management & the lack of hand-holding that make it way harder to be untreated ADHD in college vs. untreated ADHD in high school
Started 40 mg Vyvanse my sophomore year and it, without question, completely changed my life.
I take it too but doesn't set me up like it has for you and others. It helps but not to the same degree. It varies widely. I'd happy with uninterrupted focus for 15 mins!
Thank you for writing this, Gena! Your self-account around sustained intentionality really hit a nerve, somehow piercing the protective layer I had called "there's no way I have ADHD, it's just a character issue" that once again shows that our mental prisons are always locked from the inside.
I am the type of person in possession of many unscheduled compounds, including a passable adderall analog. I woke up today and tried an approximated intro dose. And wow. I believe I'll back off future doses a bit but holy shit. Sustained intentionality?! It wasn't just character flaws and/or trauma? Big if true. More experiments required but this very comment is the type of thing I would have written half of and then closed the tab.
Thanks so much for sharing. I’m fairly certain I’m an undiagnosed ADHD adult, and I struggle with it daily. I’ve considered trying Adderall, but I’m terrified of possible long-term side effects, like heart disease. Is there strong evidence of this? I also wonder: if I already struggle with focus, would taking Adderall just be a crutch that could end up worsening an underlying physiological issue as I age?
Sure thing, Zach- thanks for reading!
The latest research shows either no long-term risk of stimulant meds on heart disease (e.g., https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2798903 ) or some small alleged risk that’s likely explained by confounds (like having ADHD vs not!). Of course I’d encourage you to do your own research and cost/benefit calculus, since everyone’s risk profile is different, but I for one am way less likely to drop dead of a stroke or heart attack if I keep taking Adderall vs not. 😅
What is an honesty log and how do you use it?
Ah, thanks for asking; I meant to link to this piece where I previously described it: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-art-and-science-self-creation/202008/5-steps-earning-your-own-trust/amp
This post also has some relevant material and examples, if you’d like to go more in-depth: https://builders.genagorlin.com/p/vision-or-delusion-why-ambitious-eae
Thank you Gena!
Sure thing! Would love to hear your impressions if/when you give it a try :)
Here I was, yesterday, in this exact spot in the house, thinking I'd be trying to do stuff and not doing it for the rest of the day, kind of as always, and lo, this article. I admit I only skimmed it at first, with smug raised eyebrows. When I got to the not small print, and skimmed that, my internal monologue went from "nananana" to "oh shit not this again, NO, I AM NOT ANOTHER ADHD PERSON" very quickly. I consulted some diagnostic criteria and then went straight to Claude to complain ("how is this a diagnosis, these are all normal people things, i refuse to call myself adhd when everyone online uses diagnoses as badges"). Claude did not agree with my yammering, but took me through the criteria step by step, and about an hour later, I sent an email to a psychiatrist, asking for a diagnosis of both me and my son. I was distraught for the rest of the day, confused about reality, missed (forgot) an appointment, laughed and cried about the irony, etc.
Later, I read your article again, this time it soothed me considerably. Still, the prospect of *not* constantly beating myself up for just not being able to do what I *want* to do just does not compute.
Thank you for framing this the way you did, as accepting support, not a new identity. For me, it may have changed everything.
Oh wow, thank you so much for this honest and raw account of how the post affected you, Esther. The possibility that it might impact someone in exactly this way was the whole reason I wrote it, so this means the world to me. <3 Rooting for you and your son to get the insight and support you need, and let me know if I can ever help in any way!
@Dr Gena thank you!
Gorgeous. 💕
The part that resonates with me most is the trouble in transitioning to the workplace. I remember being on my first co-op software job, sitting down after lunch and looking at my colleagues as they all just... started programming. I just could not understand how they could do that. So I felt a lot of guilt about not being able to just... work.
Took me a few years to find out about ADHD, and then later ASD. The combination of the two is really annoying. I both crave routine and structure, and absolutely abhor it. It makes transitions really hard. I'm either locked in on something and can't think about anything else (even if I physically remove myself from whatever it is I was doing), or my mind is searching for something, anything other than whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing. Vyvanse makes the latter more manageable.
Either way, my output is really lumpy. If my brain is currently obsessed with something, I can move mountains. But if it's on to something else? Forget about it. Makes it hard to take on long term projects because I'll be really into it for a week or two, and then I'll want nothing to do with it. I at least recognize that a lot of my interests are cyclical, so I do sometimes come back to it.
It's hard not to feel fundamentally broken. I have the intellectual capacity to do hard things, but I don't feel like I can work with myself.
I am most certainly an undiagnosed adult, and based on my own observations and some feedback from teachers, so is my 7 year old son.
I have had a very unconventional upbringing and always thought my scattered mind was a result of that but as I see with my son (and my Mom and Grandfather), it seems deeper and more fundamental than just ideas I’ve accumulated about the world, rather it’s a very definite personality trait or way of operating.
I am still (at least for now) not entirely sold on the ‘disability’ framing of ADHD. In my life experience it has been instrumental in my ability to identify patterns and make connections that most others just can’t make.
My brain operates in a much more abstract (but not one dimensional like with mathematics) way, that has been crucial in my ability to innovate as an entrepreneur. I don’t mean the type of lineal innovating like Gates did with Microsoft, I mean the type of broad spectrum, multifaceted innovating that Jobs did of creating an entirely new ecosystem of industries. (I’m not comparing myself to them, rather just using the two of them to differentiate the types of creativity I am referring to).
I have been fortunate enough to have found entrepreneurship and people who have seen past my scatter brain deficits and recognized my strengths, not in spite of those deficits but as a corollary to them. Eg. I am scattered on the menial administrative tasks because I am completely absorbed in how the new brands colors are communicating our message, or because I’m completely obsessed with our latest product design etc. I can guarantee you that if I took a pill that helped me do those admin tasks, my brand to product sensibilities and all my other superpowers would suffer. And luckily for me I have found a career and people that not only accept those traits but excel because of them.
My point is that I question the underlying context of excellence. Are we all these uniformly, well rounded individuals who can tick the expected boxes given to us or are we a mix mash of different abilities designed to be strong in one area and then naturally weaker in another, naturally opening the door to others who compliment those extremes with their own unique combination?
The current education system is built around a duty mentality and a ‘well rounded’ standard and while that is good and works for some people, it’s truly decimating for others and while I’m not always against it, I don’t think medication is the solution, I think it’s a deeper issue.
“My executive function is weak and benefits hugely from interventions like Adderall and GTD” over “I have ADHD”
I agree with the former framing. Too many people don’t quite qualify for the latter but do for the former, and both deserve the opportunity to do something about it.
Adderall is lots of fun; doesn't mean you have ADHD. Just not enough time running around outside.
Could it be a physiological disorder in the reward/emotive system?
I don’t think we know enough to know what the “reward/emotive system” even is or how distinct it is from the executive control system, but insofar as we do, something like depression would be much more of a clear-case cut of “reward/emotive” deficits. A person with vs without ADHD experiences the same range of emotions and reward-based motivations, but more erratically given how easily our attention wanders off and how hard it is to keep a given reward in view.